5 replies to this topic

[qqqbear]

Greece’s depression could prove worst in modern history
Posted by Brad Plumerat 11:15 AM ET, 02/15/2012

How badly is Greece hurting from its debt woes and onslaught of austerity? One World Bank official tells the paper Ekathimerini that the country is on pace to suffer the worst economic contraction in the postwar era. “On the current path — which is not sustainable in my view — we may very well see Greek GDP go down 25 to 30 percent, which would be historically unprecedented,” said Uri Dadush, a former World Bank official.

Austerity’s not terribly popular around these parts. (Simon Dawson/Bloomberg) The previous records were set by Argentina — which contracted 20 percent after it defaulted on its debts in 2001 — and Latvia, whose economy shrunk 24 percent after the 2008 financial crisis. (For various reasons, economists seem to consider the break-up of the Soviet Union, which shrunk Russia’s economy 44 percent, a special case).

And Greece could well beat them all, even with the bailout it’s getting from the rest of Europe. After four years of recession, the country has contracted 16 percent

http://www.washingto...NimFR_blog.html

[qqqbear]

Unfortunately, most in the mainstream media are treating what is happening in Greece as an “isolated incident” rather than as a very serious warning sign for the world.

Thankfully, there are at least a few reporters out there that are realizing the gravity of the situation.  The following is how one reporter from the New York Times recently described what life is like in Greece now….


By many indicators, Greece is devolving into something unprecedented in modern Western experience. A quarter of all Greek companies have gone out of business since 2009, and half of all small businesses in the country say they are unable to meet payroll. The suicide rate increased by 40 percent in the first half of 2011. A barter economy has sprung up, as people try to work around a broken financial system. Nearly half the population under 25 is unemployed. Last September, organizers of a government-sponsored seminar on emigrating to Australia, an event that drew 42 people a year earlier, were overwhelmed when 12,000 people signed up. Greek bankers told me that people had taken about one-third of their money out of their accounts; many, it seems, were keeping what savings they had under their beds or buried in their backyards. One banker, part of whose job these days is persuading people to keep their money in the bank, said to me, “Who would trust a Greek bank?”

http://etfdailynews....on-will-resume/

[murray]

People speak as though a downturn (mild or severe) is a tragedy. It's not. The tragedy was the expansion, wherein credit bloomed and savings withered. The downturn is a time of recoordination between people. Unsustainable relationships are revealed and liquidated.

It dosen't have to be this way. Will people ever learn? Easy money, boom, bust.

Counterfeiting is the defining crime of the age we live in.

[cambodiabear]

Nigel Farage has been speaking of the Greek tragedy at length ...

Farage: Globalist Troika Driving Greece Towards Violent Revolution



Merkel: "can't let Greece go or others will go, end of EUR experiment"



Farage: you ain't seen nothng yet
.... well, something like 60k small businesses went BK last year alone ...

______

By many indicators, Greece is devolving into something unprecedented in modern Western experience. A quarter of all Greek companies have gone out of business since 2009, and half of all small businesses in the country say they are unable to meet payroll. The suicide rate increased by 40 percent in the first half of 2011.

[HYPERTlGER]

The top of the global trade system grows richer by taking more power than they give from the bottom of the global trade which grows poorer in power by giving more power than than they take from the top.

The demand by the top is the cause of the consequneces at the bottom.

When the bottom can no longer supply the demands of the top...The bottom collapses....Greece was weak...The rest will follow eventually...

USA public debt $10.45 Trillion 69.4% of GDP External debt $14.71 Trillion 97.7% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$1.34 Trillion Trade deficit/surplus -$803 Billion Largest consumer of exports Canada 19.4% Mexico 12.8%...largest supplier of imports China 19.5% Canada 14.2%  Oil deficit/surplus -9,462,000 bbl/day

EU countries (Or states within the United States of Europe.)

Austria public debt $306.5 Billion 72.1% of GDP External debt $883.5 Billion 208% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$22.2 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$2.4 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 32% Italy 7.9%...largest supplier of imports Germany 44% Italy 6.8%  Oil deficit/surplus -248,310 bbl/day

Belgium public debt $527.4 Billion 99.7% of GDP External debt $1,399 Trillion 264% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$15 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$0.4 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 19.1% France 17%...largest supplier of imports Netherlands 19.1% Germany 16.4%  Oil deficit/surplus -611,380 bbl/day

Bulgaria public debt $9.5 Billion 17.5% of GDP External debt $39.28 Billion 72% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$1.58 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$2.31 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 10.9% Italy 9.9%...largest supplier of imports Russia 16.3% Germany 11.8%  Oil deficit/surplus -88,075 bbl/day

Cyprus public debt $17.17 Billion 66.8% of GDP External debt none...Government surplus/deficit -$1.9 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$7.74 Billion Largest consumers of exports Greece 24.5% Germany 10.5%...largest supplier of imports Greece 19% Italy 9.5%  Oil deficit/surplus -61,000 bbl/day

Czech Republic public debt $87.24 Billion 39.6% of GDP External debt $96.9 Billion 43.9% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$9.78 Billion Trade deficit/surplus 3.2 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 31.7% Slovakia 8.7%...largest supplier of imports Germany 25.6% China 11.9%  Oil deficit/surplus -185,390 bbl/day

Denmark public debt $163.72 Billion 46.9% of GDP External debt $626.9 Billion 179% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$13.4 Billion Trade deficit/surplus 12 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 17.6% Sweden 13.8%...largest supplier of imports Germany 21.1 Sweden 13.7  Oil deficit/surplus 80,000 bbl/day

Estonia public debt $1.31 Billion 5.8% of GDP External debt $25.4 Billion 113% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$0.28 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$0.6 Billion Largest consumer of exports Finland 18.5% Sweden 17%...largest supplier of imports Finland 15.7% Germany 11.9%  Oil deficit/surplus -23,358 bbl/day

Finland public debt $132.6 Billion 49% of GDP External debt $518 Billion 191% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$4.6 Billion Trade deficit/surplus 4.61 Billion Largest consumer of exports Sweden 11.6% Germany 10.2%...largest supplier of imports Russia 17.4% Germany 14.7%  Oil deficit/surplus -208,682 bbl/day

France public debt $2.4 Trillion 85.5% of GDP External debt $5.633 Trillion 201% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$164 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$106.2 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 16.4% Italy 8.2%...largest supplier of imports Germany 19.3% Belgium 11.4%  Oil deficit/surplus -1,776,000 bbl/day

Germany public debt $2.96 Trillion 81.5% of GDP External debt $5.642 Trillion 154% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$61 Billion Trade deficit/surplus 204 Billion Largest consumer of exports France 10.1% US 6.7%...largest supplier of imports Netherlands 13% France 8.2%  Oil deficit/surplus -2,348,000 bbl/day

Greece public debt $516 Billion 165.4% of GDP External debt $583.3 Billion 186% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$30 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$39.15 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 10.9% Italy 10.9%...largest supplier of imports Germany 10.6% Italy 9.9%  Oil deficit/surplus -363,354 bbl/day

Hungary public debt $112.4 Billion 76% of GDP External debt $185 Billion 125% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$4.34 Billion Trade deficit/surplus 7.8 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 25.5% Italy 5.5%...largest supplier of imports Germany 26.1% Russia 7.7%  Oil deficit/surplus -112,120 bbl/day

Ireland public debt $242.8 Billion 109.2% of GDP External debt $2.357 Trillion 1060% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$22.43 Billion Trade deficit/surplus 52.95 Billion Largest consumer of exports US 22.1% UK 16.1%...largest supplier of imports UK 37.7% US 13.8%  Oil deficit/surplus -159,300 bbl/day

Italy public debt $2.7 Trillion 120.1% of GDP External debt $2.684 Trillion 120% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$81 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$32.3 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 14.2% France 11.7%...largest supplier of imports Germany 16.2% France 11.7% Oil deficit/surplus -1,377,000 bbl/day

Latvia public debt $12.27 Billion 44.8% of GDP External debt $41.08 Billion 150% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$1.48 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$2.3 Billion Largest consumer of exports Russia 15.2% Lithuania 15.2%...largest supplier of imports Lithuania 16.3% Germany 11.4%  Oil deficit/surplus -41,000 bbl/day

Lithuania public debt $16.29 Billion 37.7% of GDP External debt $27.67 Billion 64% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$2.45 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$2.36 Billion Largest consumer of exports Russia 15.7% Germany 10.1%...largest supplier of imports Russia 32.9% Germany 11% Oil deficit/surplus -61,268 bbl/day

Luxembourg public debt $12.83 Billion 20.4% of GDP External debt 2.146 Trillion 3411% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$0.7 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$8.35 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 22.3% France 15.5%...largest supplier of imports Belgium 31.3% Germany 25.1%  Oil deficit/surplus -60,510 bbl/day

Malta public debt $6.32 Billion 68% of GDP External debt $48.79 Billion 525% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$0.32 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$1.3 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 18.4% France 15.7%...largest supplier of imports Italy 24.1% Germany 8.5%  Oil deficit/surplus -19,000 bbl/day

Netherlands public debt $552.7 Billion 64.4% of GDP External debt $2.655 Triillion 3093% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$32.7 Billion Trade deficit/surplus 62.8 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 26% Belgium 13%...largest supplier of imports Germany 15.5% China 12.6%  Oil deficit/surplus 949,510 bbl/day

Poland public debt $301.5 Billion 56.7% of GDP External debt $306.9 Billion 58% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$13.9 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$20.8 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 26.9% France 7.1%...largest supplier of imports Germany 29.1% Russia 8.8%  Oil deficit/surplus -536,270 bbl/day

Portugal public debt $249.9 Billion 103.3% of GDP External debt $548.3 Billion 227% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$10.9 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$22.2 Billion Largest consumer of exports Spain 26.8 Germany 13.1%...largest supplier of imports Spain 31.3% Germany 13.8%  Oil deficit/surplus -272,679 bbl/day

Romania public debt $63 Billion 34% of GDP External debt $136.9 Billion 73.8% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$7.85 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$8.32 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 18.4% Italy 14.1%...largest supplier of imports Germany 16.8% Italy 11.6%  Oil deficit/surplus -88,900 bbl/day

Slovakia public debt $43.25 Billion 44.5% of GDP External debt $75.9 Billion 78% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$4.78 Billion Trade deficit/surplus $1.16 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 20.1% Czech Republic 14.8%...largest supplier of imports Czech Republic 18.8% Germany 18.3%  Oil deficit/surplus -75,529 bbl/day

Slovenia public debt $23.84Billion 45.5% of GDP External debt $61.23 Billion 116% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$2.67 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$2.13 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 19.2% Italy 12.5%...largest supplier of imports Germany 16.2% Italy 15.5%  Oil deficit/surplus -63,000 bbl/day

Spain public debt $956 Billion 62.2% of GDP External debt $2.57 Trillion 167% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$100.6 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$54 Billion Largest consumer of exports France 18.7% Germany 10.7%...largest supplier of imports Germany 12.6% France 11.5%  Oil deficit/surplus -1,411,000 bbl/day

Sweden public debt $210.3 Billion 36.8% of GDP External debt $1.016 Trillion 178% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit $3.4 Billion Trade deficit/surplus $16.8 Billion Largest consumer of exports Germany 10.5% Norway 9.8%...largest supplier of imports Germany 18.3% Norway 8.5%  Oil deficit/surplus -346,267 bbl/day

United Kingdom  public debt $1.972 Trillion 79.5% of GDP External debt $9.836 Trillion 396% of GDP...Government surplus/deficit -$217 Billion Trade deficit/surplus -$159.5 Billion Largest consumer of exports US 11.4% Germany 11.2%...largest supplier of imports Germany 13.1% China 9.1%  Oil deficit/surplus -229,000 bbl/day

[HYPERTlGER]

And how do you think monetary systems have worked through history?

The top employes the bottom to supply the top with all the silver and gold wholesale...the top then marks it up and sells it to the bottom retail.

The difference between the whoelsale cost and the retail price is the yield the top lives off of.

What happens when the gold and silver mines or supply can't keep up to the demand?

the top is forced to reduce the gold and silver content.

Eventually to zero...Eventually the bottom reaches the point where they can no longer supply the yield the top demands...and the whole system collapses.

The credit system allows the lending spending cycle to be sustained beyond the limitations of the gold and silver mines.

imagine you have enough of everything to sustain your civilization...aka enterprise...except gold and silver to construct coins out of...Like you have enough food to feed the population...but not enough silver or gold to construct money in order to sustain the economy so that they can buy it.

what is your solution?

say....sorry the money has run out...sure we have plenty of food...but to feed you we would have to counterfeit money...and that's wrong...so have fun starving to death...You all had too many babies...sorry...god find a nice spot to di so that your rotting bodies don't stink up teh joint.

If that was the case...the world would have ended along time ago.

The USA has been sustained by the credit system it's entire existance....The USA has been sustained by creating credit out of thin air to finance the continued existance of the USA for it's entire history.

Greece is just being consumed by those higher in the absolute capitalist hierarchy...It has nothing to do with the monetary system which is just an effect...The cause is the choice to take more than you give.

The top grows richer in power by taking more power than they give from the bottom...and when the bottom has been sucked dry...it implodes.

Greece was just suckered into signing on the dotted line to join the EU and then was taken to the cleaners...

In the circulation within the EU zone...all the debt created by the ECB pumped into Greece will basically just circulate out and into Germany...the German economy gets subsidized...and the Greeks are being forced to sign on the dotted line to agree to slave for generations to pay for it.

That is what is really going on.

Greece basically needs to instantly cut all trade deficts by imposing restrictions and leave the EU...but I guess that is why a Goldman asset was installed as Prime minister...to keep Greece in to be milked.